Harold, better known as Diz, shares some of his experiences from World War Two.

You may also see Diz on our website Tribute Page- http://veterans.thuysmithinternationaloutreach.org/2/post/2012/01/world-war-two-veterans.html

Mike Muller is on the Advisory Board for Thuy Smith International Outreach. He is a Vietnam veteran, has a Ph.D. in psychology, and has counseled veterans for many years.  He writes novels under the pen name of Michael FitzGordon. 

This blog was written by Michael (Vietnam Veteran), with final thoughts at the end by Thuy (Amerasian Daughter of an American Vietnam Veteran).

Morality: The Gap Between Civilians and Combat Veterans

I want to make it perfectly clear that morality is exactly the same for civilians and combat veterans. However, there is often a wide divergence in the experience and understanding of morality between these two groups. In combat we see a wide range of moral behaviors, from the monstrously depraved to the gloriously heroic and good. Of course we also see this in civilian life, but generally speaking the extremes are usually not so pronounced.

Let us look at depravity first. Currently in the news there is a furor about some U.S. Marines who urinated on the bodies of their dead enemies. These kinds of acts happen in every war. In the Pacific in WWII Marines would knock out the gold teeth of their dead enemies. When they saw incidents of the Japanese mutilating dead American soldiers, they retaliated by mutilating dead Japanese soldiers. However, the news of these kinds of atrocities was suppressed. In the war in Vietnam such atrocities often received attention in the U.S. press. Usually the U.S. press captured the atrocities and corruption committed by American soldiers rather than the atrocities and corruption of Vietnamese soldiers, whether from North or former “South” Vietnam. Men drank from the skulls of their dead enemies. They made necklaces of ears. And so on. You get the idea. Obviously there is no justification for such depravity. Most men in combat know that these kinds of actions are wrong. However, in various times, places, and units, they become carried away. They are far from home, living and acting like beasts, killing and living in fear of being killed month after month, and for sometimes years. They crack and commit atrocities.

It seems to me that most civilians think that this could never happen to them. Psychological research, however, shows not only that it could happen, in some situations it most likely will. It does not take much pressure at all to make most people behave badly. Fraternity and sorority hazing is the most mundane example of ordinary college students succumbing to really rather mild social pressure to behave badly. In “Mean Girls, young schoolgirls bully each other. In time of war the pressures are far greater. Guards in prison camps can become very cruel. These soldiers, after all, were once civilians themselves. So let us not be horrified so much by what those soldiers have done, but let us be horrified by our own human nature, which so easily lapses into bestiality. Let us do a better job of training soldiers to be more psychologically resilient in war, and to act with integrity while in the hell of war. Easier said than done. The first step in this process is to recognize and admit to the depravity in all of us. Then we can prepare to prevent its emergence.

Consider the good and the heroic. Consider people risking and giving their lives to save the lives of others. There is no greater love than to give your life for another. Consider the moral judgments soldiers make. In the heat of combat soldiers must often instantly make moral judgments that would take the Supreme Court years to decide. A man is pinned beneath a burning tank and screaming as he is burning to death. A friend puts him out of his misery with a bullet. I think many people would tend to have intellectual arguments about how euthanasia is always wrong. But there is very little that is intellectual about watching your friend burning to death. And it does not take any intellectual deliberation at all to decide to do what you feel is right. The Supreme Court might want to argue such a case for years, but the soldier makes what he feels is the correct moral judgment almost instantaneously.

I once heard that a judge in the Nuremberg trials said that it was always wrong to kill prisoners. Most people without much experience of the realities of war would probably be all too quick to agree with this proposition. Don’t forget that many states do in fact kill prisoners. It’s called capital punishment. But somehow, when people are having intellectual arguments about these kinds of issues, they tend to be far removed from the reality of such situations. Consider that your platoon of thirty men is in the jungle far from your base, and you are surrounded by the enemy and need to make your way out of this perilous situation. You have six prisoners. If you call for a helicopter to have them evacuated, the helicopter will almost certainly be shot down. You cannot possibly take the prisoners with you as you try to covertly evade the enemy all around you. If you do, all thirty of you will almost certainly be killed. If you release the prisoners, they will immediately tell the enemy which direction you went in, how many of you there are, and what weapons and supplies you have, and again you will almost certainly be killed. So you decide to kill the prisoners. It is self defense in a time of war. You may remember that in Saving Private Ryan they released a prisoner rather than kill him, only to have that same prisoner kill the character played by Tom Hanks. Is it wrong to kill prisoners? Generally speaking, yes. But one can think of situations in which there is no other choice, and the soldier makes what he feels is the correct decision instantly and with little or no intellectualizing.

In a future blog I want to address killing and torture, as well as the fragging and killing of officers and others in combat, which happens more often than most people suspect. War is hell. It is a nightmare. I encourage everyone to pray to God that they will always do what is right. And pray that you will not be tested. Most civilians do not understand what soldiers have endured, and I believe that this is perhaps the biggest, yet unrecognized, part of post-traumatic stress disorder. Soldiers tend not to talk about their combat experiences, and even try not to think about them, because they know that most civilians will simply not understand. The civilians will most likely not be able to tolerate the horror, or they may make smug, self-righteous statements about morality that only make the soldier feel still sicker about the horror in which he participated. So the soldier becomes isolated and alienated by the horror he carries within, and cannot share with others. He is thereby excluded from any understanding, empathy, forgiveness, and intimacy by the very people who sent him to war, and for whom he fought and endured this horror. His service extends from a brief tour of duty to a lifetime as he protects the civilians from the horror. In this situation who is sicker? Those who must bear the painful reality, or those civilians who cannot bear it? And is PTSD a diagnosis of an individual’s sickness, or a diagnosis of his situation in which he is alienated from a society that cannot bear the truth?

Thuy’s added thoughts

As I’ve always said, war never ends when it ends. For many it is just beginning. The rippling effects continue long after the war is done. People in the U.S. are still dealing with issues from their own civil war, which began 150 years ago, and was fought by our great -great grandparents. War affects so many on so many levels.

As Mike shared, there are the atrocities that take place during war. That is how war is and can never be avoided. This is why it is also vitally important for all citizens to question the justification before entering war, and having to put our men and women serving our country in that position.

To question and to have this assurance is is not only the Rights, Ideals, and Freedoms of the American people and it’s veterans, it is also their duty. This is the very reason behind Veteran’s intentions for serving…..to protect these very rights and freedoms.

“Good” and “bad” everywhere. No one race,country, or group of people are ever exempt. ~ Thuy Smith

Disclaimer: If you are needing more extensive assistance or counseling, we can supply you with a list of available agencies to assist you. No blogs are ever meant to substitute a person seeking help through professional counseling.

Mike Muller:  MACV CORDS operations advisor, Binh Chanh District, 1970.  Briefing officer for DEPCORDS Ambassador Funkhouser to CG & staff, III Corps Vietnam, 1971.  In addition to briefing the staff I briefed visiting officials such as the Secretary of the Army.  I was in Vietnam for one tour.

We walked with a purpose, my friend and I beneath the clouded Washington sky.

The earth seemed to open as we approached from the east. We entered a world of tranquility, a world of peace.

At first it was hard to grasp the feeling. There was no indication of instant healing.The names were all there on the blackened surface. They were waiting for us to fulfill our purpose.

We made ourselves busy at tracing and such. A name to remember…. A soul to touch. Without knowing, as we made our way, our hearts were swelling with pride that day.

Tear did not fall as one might expect. It was a scene of resolve, love, and respect. The wall was black and all too complete. The wall was a reminder of what not to repeat.

Most names were unfamiliar, but not unknown. The seeds of war so long ago sown, has made us as one in another life. As one in good times and one in strife.

We moved on to the statue of three young men. They looked as we did, way back when. They were real in all ways but one….Frozen in time, a job well done.

The power of feeling is hard to express. Soldiers of combat, faces of distress. They looked to the wall in a peculiar way. Is it surprise or danger their eyes display?

I am a young man of 20 once again. If I touch them they will come alive, as if to say, “I also can survive”.

They move from the trees, and enter the clear. They move with caution, not hiding their fear. They have returned from a duty known only to them. They look to the wall, these three young men.

We return at night to share the peace. Our memories of this visit will never cease. The calm of the darkness brings a lump to the throat. Thoughts of another time are no longer remote.

There is a time we need to heal. There is a time we need to feel. Those names on The Wall and those three young men, Renewed my conviction to survive again.

Galen Gregerson (June 13, 1986)

Reflections

“Reflections are important when one is trying to ascertain solutions to challenges. Where have I been and how did I get here? What do I need to make a decision? Who do I seek out for input? How many options do I have? Which options are most reasonable for me?What are my liabilities? What are my assets?

As a Nam Vet, do I revert to survival tactics for this challenge, this treating it like a mission? Or, do I incorporate feelings into my decision process? Perhaps I do need survival tactics initially, gaining strength through anger. However, that will not prevail over the long-haul. To remain “living life” rather than simply “surviving life” requires more thought, feeling, and determination.

Survival is automatic for the well-practiced Vietnam Veteran. Living life to its fullest with a sense for feelings is more difficult. The choice is mine, as is the reward. I choose to live my life. To survive life is too incomplete and too unforgiving”.

(excerpts) Galen Gregerson

October 25, 1994

*No blog is meant to substitute anyone seeking professional assistance or other support if needed. Each post are by individuals merely sharing their experiences, reflections, and hope.

This is an interview I did with an author, Tina Susedik, about her military history book. Tina shares a few highlights from her book including some real interesting facts during the World War Two era.

To learn more about Tina and her other work, please go to http://tinasusedik.com

Vietnam Veteran, former marine, tells his story. He also share about how he has been working on changing his views and attitudes toward the Hmong & Vietnamese people. It is a little emotional, but I’ve known this Veteran for a few years now. I know how he was at one time and have seen him change quite a bit. He is honest to say he still struggles with it, but he is definitely working on it.

Bridging the gap…..Some people may feel it is naive to even try to think this is possible….but I refuse to believe that. I know it is possible because I’ve personally witnessed first hand that people can change….. forgive….and truly reconcile. So I will continue on this path and keep trying.

What are the facts: The Vietnamese & Hmong refugees did not get any special loans or other benefits. The only thing as a refugee that they received was a very basic initial amount of money to try and get their lives together again.

The plane tickets that helped them get to the United States all had to be paid back. I recently talked with a Hmong woman who told me that her family just this year finally paid off their tickets after all of these years. The Hmong families were bigger in the past (part of their culture). So for example if a there were a family of 10, that could mean around $10,000 for them to pay back- not given to them for free.

They were eligible for certain assistance, but no different than what anyone else in this country could also qualify for. The Hmong have accomplished much in this country and their children have even gone on to serve our Country- Their county today.

The Hmong were NEVER compensated for their sacrifices, which were many, for their help and support in OUR Country’s war.

Here is another Video to learn more details of what the Hmong did for us in the United States-

http://www.thuysmithinternationaloutreach.org/11/post/2011/05/post-title-click-and-type-to-edit2.html

Our TV Show- A former Marine stationed around Quang Tri and former DMZ area during the war. Part two will be shared later of his return trip he took back to Vietnam for the first time- one was with his daughter.In the end I thank him for what he did in Vietnam- I was referring to the help he & other veterans did for the people in Vietnam on a return trip.

I too have been to Vietnam (nine times) and usually spend 1-2 months at a time. I’ve been all over Vietnam and have had Veterans return with me. My first return trip was in January 1995 before we had normalized relations and a U.S. Embassy in Vietnam.  Everyone’s experience is different when they served in Vietnam when they came home, & for those who decide to do a return trip many years later. The Veterans who returned with me and others I know who have returned on their own, have had nothing but a positive experience.      Thuy Smith

We will have more shows on benefits coming in near future. If you have questions on any of the benefits we highlight or would like to learn more about a particular benefit, please leave a comment in the appropriate section or email us at our main website- http://thuysmithinternationaloutreach.org

You can also see more pictures of Bob on our Vietnam Veteran Tribute page (from our website) link below.

http://www.thuysmithinternationaloutreach.org/vietnam-veteran-tribute.html